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S. 1867: National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012
Topic Started: Friday, 2. December 2011, 21:55 (1,139 Views)
Dragon Lord
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The bill is suppose to be against terrorists, but it also can be seen as taking away our rights because it allows the military to go as far as assassinating US citizens without trial if they are suspect of being a terrorist.

This power would obviously be abused by the Government to take out people they feel are a threat to them, terrorist or not.
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megaboy08
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Saturday, 3. December 2011, 18:38
The bill is suppose to be against terrorists, but it also can be seen as taking away our rights because it allows the military to go as far as assassinating US citizens without trial if they are suspect of being a terrorist.

This power would obviously be abused by the Government to take out people they feel are a threat to them, terrorist or not.
That depends on the race of the person. I'm not being racist or anything but according to the article mostly Muslims will be affected by this, so it seems because of society.

I smell segregation coming soon once again after this bill. If the bill of rights are taken away then the government and congress are pretty much insulting the troops. The army fights for freedom, so if this bill passes it mean all those who perished by fighting for this country was all for nothing.

Way to go senate, congress and government -__-




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Dragon Lord
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There is wide spread belief that if this goes through, there could be riots, and even the possibly of an all-out rebellion. People have argued over what would happen with the US Troops then, some saying they would fight for the government, others saying they would fight for the people because that is what they are in the army to do.
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The Last Outlaw
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I still find that crazy to do. This country has been founded upon those rights for the people of the United States. To even think of suspending those rights is absolutely ridiculous and absurd.

If the story is true, the 112th Congress, who has pretty much done nothing, is going to get flipped on so, it will turn all of Washington, DC on its ear.

And I do hope Obama vetoes that bill.
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megaboy08
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Saturday, 3. December 2011, 18:51
There is wide spread belief that if this goes through, there could be riots, and even the possibly of an all-out rebellion. People have argued over what would happen with the US Troops then, some saying they would fight for the government, others saying they would fight for the people because that is what they are in the army to do.
Fight for the government? Possibly less than half of them will. As seen with other nations, the army fights for the "leader" but only ends up turning against him. The same will happen here.

@KoH: Exactly, if rights are taken away then the purpose of this country means nothing. They might as well destroy the statue of liberty as well.
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M.o.D
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found this:
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megaboy08
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Lets hope the house has some sense. The house has more representative, making it harder to achieve 2/3 majority vote.

If this bill passes, a new Hitler will arise.
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Dragon Lord
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I think saying there will be a new Hitler is pretty extreme. You have to remember, Hitler slaughtered countless people just because he did not view them as "perfect people" like he thought the Aryans were.

Having this happen would undoubtedly lead to some people dying (either by the government claiming they are a danger or from them protesting/revolting), but to say we'd have another Hitler is much too extreme.
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Stacha
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Everyone likes to think anyone with some influence will become Hitler. Bush was called Hitler, Obama's been compared to Hitler, but until another person murders upwards of six million people, the comparison is extreme.

This however, is intolerable and a definite step in the worst direction. How can America call itself a democratic nation when its leaders enact something like this? Unfortunately the image M.o.D. found is correct and in this case, checks and balances are working against us. The senate could easily overturn a veto by the President, and so the only course of action is to appeal to your representative to fight the vote and change his or hers.
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[9:10:49 PM] Cody: YOU'RE GETTING TOO FACTUAL
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[9:11:04 PM] Stacha: WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHUPACABRAS
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megaboy08
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Sunday, 4. December 2011, 17:58
I think saying there will be a new Hitler is pretty extreme. You have to remember, Hitler slaughtered countless people just because he did not view them as "perfect people" like he thought the Aryans were.

Having this happen would undoubtedly lead to some people dying (either by the government claiming they are a danger or from them protesting/revolting), but to say we'd have another Hitler is much too extreme.
You don't understand, this event will lead straight to another. Soon the president will start blaming a specific race or religious group and blame them that because its their fault for all the problems in the world and because they have no rights they can't do anything about it. If we have no rights then they can't say any of his actions are "unconstitutional" therefore whatever he's doing now will always be "right"

@Stacha: Those people are idiots then because they just say anything and say without reason. If that was the case then anyone who murdered anyone is a Hitler.
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Dragon Lord
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megaboy08
Monday, 5. December 2011, 11:26
Dragon Lord
Sunday, 4. December 2011, 17:58
I think saying there will be a new Hitler is pretty extreme. You have to remember, Hitler slaughtered countless people just because he did not view them as "perfect people" like he thought the Aryans were.

Having this happen would undoubtedly lead to some people dying (either by the government claiming they are a danger or from them protesting/revolting), but to say we'd have another Hitler is much too extreme.
You don't understand, this event will lead straight to another. Soon the president will start blaming a specific race or religious group and blame them that because its their fault for all the problems in the world and because they have no rights they can't do anything about it. If we have no rights then they can't say any of his actions are "unconstitutional" therefore whatever he's doing now will always be "right"

@Stacha: Those people are idiots then because they just say anything and say without reason. If that was the case then anyone who murdered anyone is a Hitler.
It's not that I don't understand, it's that you are taking this way out of context. This event is bad for the American people, but it doesn't mean millions and millions of people of one race/group are going to be slaughtered for no reason other than the President doesn't think they are worthy of life.
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M.o.D
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from gawker:
http://gawker.com/5865089/20-things-you-should-know-about-americas-most-horrifying-new-law
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Stacha
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megaboy08
Monday, 5. December 2011, 11:26
Dragon Lord
Sunday, 4. December 2011, 17:58
I think saying there will be a new Hitler is pretty extreme. You have to remember, Hitler slaughtered countless people just because he did not view them as "perfect people" like he thought the Aryans were.

Having this happen would undoubtedly lead to some people dying (either by the government claiming they are a danger or from them protesting/revolting), but to say we'd have another Hitler is much too extreme.
You don't understand, this event will lead straight to another. Soon the president will start blaming a specific race or religious group and blame them that because its their fault for all the problems in the world and because they have no rights they can't do anything about it. If we have no rights then they can't say any of his actions are "unconstitutional" therefore whatever he's doing now will always be "right"
I just really don't see that happening. Hitler came to power in Germany because the country was incredibly vulnerable at the time, and angry. They were forced to take FULL responsibility for WWI, a war they didn't even start, and pay the full cost of the entire war. That's an astronomical amount of money. Then their main industrial area was seized by France. They relied on loans from the United States to pay their reparations, and when the Great Depression hit, those loans stopped. Germany was desolate and humiliated, and that is the only reason Hitler was able to be elected. America is no where near that point, and our checks and balances are still in place.
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[9:10:49 PM] Cody: YOU'RE GETTING TOO FACTUAL
[9:10:58 PM] Stacha: FACTUAL, CODY?
[9:11:04 PM] Stacha: WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHUPACABRAS
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megaboy08
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and our checks and balances are still in place.

For now...
Who knows what else they are planning to "suspend"
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America is no where near that point

America is blind. Your right, were not near that point but does that mean we won't be if they take the first half of the amendments out?
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Dragon Lord
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Again, you're talking about a guy who slaughtered millions of people for his own beliefs. I highly doubt, even with this in effect, the President would do the same thing.

Again, we've already said this would be bad for the citizens of the country and that the government would abuse it sometimes, that's for sure. But to say a new Hitler would rise is too much.
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M.o.D
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http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/12/01/the-truth-about-the-national-defense-authorization-act/
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/politics/senate_passes_defense_spending_bill_6BDGqScioT9k1Yh7FTI4DM

so will the budget be added to our national debt once it is in full effect?
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Stacha
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megaboy08
Tuesday, 6. December 2011, 10:56
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and our checks and balances are still in place.

For now...
Who knows what else they are planning to "suspend"
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America is no where near that point

America is blind. Your right, were not near that point but does that mean we won't be if they take the first half of the amendments out?
Checks and balances make it incapable to suspend checks and balances. The other branches might let this pass because it has potential benefits for all of them, but no branch is going to allow itself to be frozen out by the others. That's why they were put in place, and they work. Every branch has the ability to block another if it's necessary. None have absolute power and none can overpower the others.

And yeah, we still won't be. We'll be moving towards a more totalitarian government, but we aren't going to be at the genocidal point.
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[9:10:49 PM] Cody: YOU'RE GETTING TOO FACTUAL
[9:10:58 PM] Stacha: FACTUAL, CODY?
[9:11:04 PM] Stacha: WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHUPACABRAS
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megaboy08
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Tuesday, 6. December 2011, 18:58
Again, you're talking about a guy who slaughtered millions of people for his own beliefs. I highly doubt, even with this in effect, the President would do the same thing.

Again, we've already said this would be bad for the citizens of the country and that the government would abuse it sometimes, that's for sure. But to say a new Hitler would rise is too much.
You don't know the government, you don't know what it's planning, so why are you so sure? This doesn't have to be based on beliefs, he can easily say "oh (certain race) causes more crime so lets remove them to lower the crime rates" see? Knowing how blind most America citizens are, as long as it has "a good thing about it" the people will agree. If this bill passes he already has the power to do so, what makes you think he won't use/abuse this power to his advantage?

You think of the government as a friend, but you fail to realize that almost everyone in this world will abuse their power if they see an oppurtunity and given the chance to already do so. He won't necessarily be the next hitler as in killing millions, but I'm talking about that the government will be the same concept as hitler, power wise.

This won't happen right away because it will be a process, but in the long run we all know the government will become worse, it's pretty logical. That's why I believe the same thing will happen here eventually.
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Dragon Lord
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megaboy08
Wednesday, 7. December 2011, 10:44
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Tuesday, 6. December 2011, 18:58
Again, you're talking about a guy who slaughtered millions of people for his own beliefs. I highly doubt, even with this in effect, the President would do the same thing.

Again, we've already said this would be bad for the citizens of the country and that the government would abuse it sometimes, that's for sure. But to say a new Hitler would rise is too much.
You don't know the government, you don't know what it's planning, so why are you so sure? This doesn't have to be based on beliefs, he can easily say "oh (certain race) causes more crime so lets remove them to lower the crime rates" see? Knowing how blind most America citizens are, as long as it has "a good thing about it" the people will agree. If this bill passes he already has the power to do so, what makes you think he won't use/abuse this power to his advantage?

You think of the government as a friend, but you fail to realize that almost everyone in this world will abuse their power if they see an oppurtunity and given the chance to already do so. He won't necessarily be the next hitler as in killing millions, but I'm talking about that the government will be the same concept as hitler, power wise.

This won't happen right away because it will be a process, but in the long run we all know the government will become worse, it's pretty logical. That's why I believe the same thing will happen here eventually.
LOLOLOL

See the government as a friend? I guess you haven't read any of my posts about the government. It's common sense to know the government would not go out and kill off millions of people of a certain race/group because it'll lead to an all out rebellion and I highly doubt the government wants that (because they'll lose their money from taxes).

And no, they will not be the same as Hitler power wise. Not only did Hitler kill millions of Jews because he wanted to, but he also tried to take over the world, starting with Europe. So until the US Government kills off millions of people of a certain group/race just because they want to and then goes out and tries to take over Canada/Mexico, then they will not be anywhere near what Hitler was.
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megaboy08
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See the government as a friend? I guess you haven't read any of my posts about the government. It's common sense to know the government would not go out and kill off millions of people of a certain race/group because it'll lead to an all out rebellion and I highly doubt the government wants that (because they'll lose their money from taxes).

Congress can pass other laws, he can control the army. I keep saying its a process but you think of it as its going to be sudden. Plus not to mention, if this bill passes then freedom of speech will be no more, meaning no rebellions or protests because if that were to happen the protestors would be seen as "threats" and therefore killed without a trial.
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So until the US Government kills off millions of people of a certain group/race just because they want to and then goes out and tries to take over Canada/Mexico, then they will not be anywhere near what Hitler was.

NS? I never said the government is Hither right now, I said he will become one if he acts the same -_-

Regardless, this is a pointless discussion because we don't know what the future holds for us. We both agree that this is bad for Americans but we aren't certain on how bad it's really going to be.

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