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Outline's Grand Finale [Delayed]
Topic Started: Monday, 9. September 2013, 14:51 (15,662 Views)
Joe
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Hi.
I was happy to chat with Cody last night for the first time in a while.

I feel like we all need to step into Cody's shoes for a moment. Feelings and personal reactions aside, look at the amount of work he and his staff team have done here. Look at the legacy that has been built up - from the quality of the resources to the quality of the moderation, and hell, perhaps the biggest one, the quality of Outline's custom themes over the years. Cody's standards are high. Extremely high. They grew larger and larger, and that's the reason why he became such a solid administrator over time. That goes for not only himself, but also the forum. He's not the type of person that would be content with taking a lesser role - the reason being is this: unless he's going at 110% effort and rolling on full cylinders, it's not enough to him. He would feel like he's letting only himself down, but also the board and community as a whole. This all stems from the amount of work and dedication that he has put into this board year upon year.

I don't wish to put words into Cody's mouth, so I will stop there. I'm all for finding a better solution. I truly am. In fact, I'd always be willing to invest far more time in any way I possibly can. But the fact of the matter is this: this is Outline's legacy and reputation at stake. It's taken years to develop it, and Cody's not the type of guy to potentially let it slide down a slippery slope. Also regarding reputation, let's remember Cody's. There's no need to make him or the staff team the bad guy here. I'm not saying that anyone is, but I would like you all to keep it in mind. The positives far outweigh the negatives, and therefore he should be remembered for the one that matters the most: the positives. The very first thing I did was thank him for all of the effort and dedication he has put into this board, and I'm glad a lot of you had the same initial thought.

Let it be clear that this community will only fade away when you all allow it to. Closing off various aspects of the board won't make the community go away. It's here as long as you want it to be here, and I know the staff team will be willing to stay and moderate. Stacha clarified that (for her personally) in her previous post addressed to Bluezone.

Nonetheless, it's been fun. I don't think a goodbye is justified - there is no goodbye at this point. :P
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Well look what it took for everyone to come back and start posting again.
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.Josh
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I don't understand when you guys say that there isn't anyone on the staff team that's capable of running the forum. If not, how come they got picked for a staff role? I feel that soon admins start lacking in areas of any board the forums go down. Why would people stay around on a forum when admins don't care or even update anything? I understand this is 'outline' but this stands for all forums including outline. The amount of years and dedication you guys have put into outline and to just say we aren't going to update this place anymore is a shame and disappointing really. I understand real life comes first but forums have staff members to support the admins and surely there is someone that can live up to the current admins and learn and improve. I don't think outline will go down hill with another admin in charge because it's already built on a great community and have so many loyal members, I'm sure if you get a loyal, active and dedicated members that's wanting to step up as admin and take on the role they can make mistakes and learn and become a better admin. Remember that no one becomes awesome over night and it takes time. Graphics is a massive part of a community and you find graphics everywhere and this has been going for years, why take that away?
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Aeven
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Nick
Friday, 13. September 2013, 02:05
Bluezone777
Thursday, 12. September 2013, 23:26
We aren't going to stop arguing till we stop caring. Is that what you want? Is that the goal here? If so then it's a sad goal that says little about anyone who believes in achieving said goal.

Perhaps if the staff team let the community as a whole decide its fate instead of doing it for us then we might have appreciated the decision a bit more. We had zero input till AFTER the decision was made which was a honestly bullshit move to make. It says how little you respect a community when they aren't giving any time to give input on a decision of this magnitude. Why should anyone here accept your choice when it wasn't yours alone to make?

BTW, locking this topic will cause a shit storm so if you are even thinking of it then don't for your team's sake.

I don't know why this is so lost on this staff team. I really don't. This isn't something that's unique to Outline as any board of this board's size and age would react the same. I would be more surprised if they didn't to be honest.
In a way I agree with you, and I'm not going to automatically type a rebuttal due to my staff position. Every staff member, and even Cody can say that I, and a few others, fought for this to not happen. I still don't want to see Outline "close," and I keep simply wishing there was a different solution. I hate the helpless feeling that I have, caused by me not being able to do something about it.

However, there's not much to do. Simply having this back and forth argument between member comments and staff rebuttals, isn't going to change anything.
So the leaders who have control over whatever happens fought for it to not happen, yet it is still happening? Something is wrong there, right? BZ is right in his latest post. This place would stress the community all the time, yet you don't involve it in the biggest decision.
Edited by Aeven, Friday, 13. September 2013, 15:06.
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Nick
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Let it go, let it go, can't hold it back anymore!
Ahlicks
Friday, 13. September 2013, 15:00
Nick
Friday, 13. September 2013, 02:05
Bluezone777
Thursday, 12. September 2013, 23:26
We aren't going to stop arguing till we stop caring. Is that what you want? Is that the goal here? If so then it's a sad goal that says little about anyone who believes in achieving said goal.

Perhaps if the staff team let the community as a whole decide its fate instead of doing it for us then we might have appreciated the decision a bit more. We had zero input till AFTER the decision was made which was a honestly bullshit move to make. It says how little you respect a community when they aren't giving any time to give input on a decision of this magnitude. Why should anyone here accept your choice when it wasn't yours alone to make?

BTW, locking this topic will cause a shit storm so if you are even thinking of it then don't for your team's sake.

I don't know why this is so lost on this staff team. I really don't. This isn't something that's unique to Outline as any board of this board's size and age would react the same. I would be more surprised if they didn't to be honest.
In a way I agree with you, and I'm not going to automatically type a rebuttal due to my staff position. Every staff member, and even Cody can say that I, and a few others, fought for this to not happen. I still don't want to see Outline "close," and I keep simply wishing there was a different solution. I hate the helpless feeling that I have, caused by me not being able to do something about it.

However, there's not much to do. Simply having this back and forth argument between member comments and staff rebuttals, isn't going to change anything.
So the leaders who have control over whatever happens fought for it to not happen, yet it is still happening? Something is wrong there, right? BZ is right in his latest post. This place would stress the community all the time, yet you don't involve it in the biggest decision.
Realize, the staff are just staff, not leaders, and we have opinions. Our opinions may not necessarily be what's presented. We don't have much of a choice here, Cody made his decision - we didn't.
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It isn't just Cody's decision, it's the staff decision as well and not to mention the member's. Does our voice really not matter?
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Aeven
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Nick
Friday, 13. September 2013, 16:07
Ahlicks
Friday, 13. September 2013, 15:00
Nick
Friday, 13. September 2013, 02:05
Bluezone777
Thursday, 12. September 2013, 23:26
We aren't going to stop arguing till we stop caring. Is that what you want? Is that the goal here? If so then it's a sad goal that says little about anyone who believes in achieving said goal.

Perhaps if the staff team let the community as a whole decide its fate instead of doing it for us then we might have appreciated the decision a bit more. We had zero input till AFTER the decision was made which was a honestly bullshit move to make. It says how little you respect a community when they aren't giving any time to give input on a decision of this magnitude. Why should anyone here accept your choice when it wasn't yours alone to make?

BTW, locking this topic will cause a shit storm so if you are even thinking of it then don't for your team's sake.

I don't know why this is so lost on this staff team. I really don't. This isn't something that's unique to Outline as any board of this board's size and age would react the same. I would be more surprised if they didn't to be honest.
In a way I agree with you, and I'm not going to automatically type a rebuttal due to my staff position. Every staff member, and even Cody can say that I, and a few others, fought for this to not happen. I still don't want to see Outline "close," and I keep simply wishing there was a different solution. I hate the helpless feeling that I have, caused by me not being able to do something about it.

However, there's not much to do. Simply having this back and forth argument between member comments and staff rebuttals, isn't going to change anything.
So the leaders who have control over whatever happens fought for it to not happen, yet it is still happening? Something is wrong there, right? BZ is right in his latest post. This place would stress the community all the time, yet you don't involve it in the biggest decision.
Realize, the staff are just staff, not leaders, and we have opinions. Our opinions may not necessarily be what's presented. We don't have much of a choice here, Cody made his decision - we didn't.
Sorry, I thought it said Cody and everyone fought hard for this not to happen. Well then, you make Cody look like an awful person (along with everyone else saying they fought for this not to happen but Cody stood his ground). What a selfish decision to make. And no, this isn't me being angry. I am simply pointing out the self-evident (ironic, right? haha) What I've gathered from this thread is... Everyone wants this place to stay and have a new leader, and no matter what anyone says, Cody only cares about whatever decision benefits himself the most. Bear in mind, though, I haven't read all the posts (I've skipped a few like Louisa and other posts that appeared to have limited content or anything worth saying. But out of the 8+ or so posts I've read, that's what I got [maybe my reading comprehension is off? I'd rather not spend time to recheck my facts])
Edited by Aeven, Friday, 13. September 2013, 20:22.
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Bluezone777
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I am starting to wonder if this is all a set up by Cody to identify a new leader for Outline. I find it peculiar that he could post a thread such as this and not say a word after five pages of discussion. The staff would probably disagree with this but I imagine he would have told no one not even his own team as to keep them all in the dark and not taint what anyone would have said. That would be a rather ingenious move on his part if that's the case. This is just speculation by the way.

BTW leadership is not defined by titles. It is born from how you conduct yourself and how you well you can express an idea or thought to a group of people as well as how to rally people and keep morale up. Your title has little to nothing to do with any of that. If it was the case then how could anyone find a leader if the title defined whether you were a leader or not.
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Gabe.
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BZ has made some excellent points...

Outline will die anyway, whether you pass on the administration or not, it will eventually die. Why not keep it going until it dies ON ITS OWN. Putting Outline into an un-updated state will only speed up the process. The staff members all talk of wanting to keep the forum going after the grand finale, it won't keep going afterwards for long. If you really want to keep it going, take a chance on Outline.

I don't know how many times I've heard Outline staff members say on topics regarding opening forums that you need leadership to keep a forum going. Why don't you stand by your words, take the leadership of Outline and lead it into the next 'era'. Without a leader, this community will slowly wither away.

I don't care how long you though about this decision, that won't change my opinion on it so stop repeating it. It sounds like you guys have been given a limit as to what you can say in regards to this topic. Especially to the newly promoted staff members, you guys worked your asses for to become an intern, then worked your asses of during the internship programs and now that you've FINALLY become a staff member you just give up on Outline? What was the point in getting all of these new staff members if none of them are willing to take on the challenge of leading Outline into the future. Nothing in life is easy, don't expect that this would be too. And just because it won't be easy doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

Also, I do agree that Outline has extremely high expectations because of Cody, but, as mentioned before, this forum isn't even based around resources anymore as it is around general chat. The only thing that makes this a resource forum is the layout and the few resources posted once or twice a month, or if we're lucky a week.

Change the layout around a bit and put less focus on the resources, no one even pays much attention to them anyway. Leave the resources there and put emphasis on the true core of Outline, the community area. That's what has kept this forum alive over the past year or 2.

Cody, I cannot believe that you doubt your own hand picked (for the most part) staff team so much that you can't pick out a single leader in them. Giving up won't do any good
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Chance
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I don't even feel the need to reply anymore after this. It's talking to a brick wall. Cody isn't reconsidering, and even if he did, I feel this community will destroy itself just from this event.

Do you not see that the staff team is all talking you down now, telling you that we have talked with Cody and it's the best decision, yet you all are bickering saying "One of the staff members can do this!" No. Or we wouldn't be on Cody's side right now. What would we have to lose to speak against him? We're not forced to side with our administrator, but we talked to him much more. So, if we can do that, do you really think we would be willing to take the wheel? No. Because, we agree with what he's doing. Would you prefer that we take the power even though we don't agree? That's just being power-hungry and setting up for a repeated past.

And to say "he doesn't trust his staff enough to pick a leader out" is ridiculous. He didn't promote us with one of the qualifications being "Is this person good enough to take my spot, if it happens to come to that one day?" No. He hired a staff team, not a team of one day hopeful administrators. And we have done our job as staff, but we can all agree we haven't done the job of an administrator, and while it may be likely, we also likely don't have what it takes to run Outline. Cody has had years on his shoulders to evolve Outline in his direction and run with it, we have not, and the pressure on the person that would take the reigns wold be unreal.

So stop the whole staff team debate, I'm getting tired of us being dragged into this like we could do something. If any of us could. Steven, who has dedicated more time than 99% of you all has coped with this better, I thought you all could as well. This isn't a freaking debate, this is an OFFICIAL topic.

And if you think closing this topic will cause more trouble, it may very well, but we are the Outline staff team, and we will take the actions needed to maintain the forum while it does last. Think about your actions.

Done being the friendly staff member to try and get both sides resolved.
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Gabe.
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Why should we accept your decision when you won't even consider our opinions?
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Chance
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Gabe.
Friday, 13. September 2013, 23:09
Why should we accept your decision when you won't even consider our opinions?
The opinions have been considered. We discussed this THOROUGHLY for weeks before he made this official topic.
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Jimmy
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Chance
Friday, 13. September 2013, 23:11
Gabe.
Friday, 13. September 2013, 23:09
Why should we accept your decision when you won't even consider our opinions?
The opinions have been considered. We discussed this THOROUGHLY for weeks before he made this official topic.
We as in the staff? Wheres the community come in?
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Tom
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@Chance: You're Staff Members on a forum whose death timer you've accelerated. Impressive.

Seriously. As of right now, you're really only just people with titles. The community's contributed more than you think to the forum. If you're blatantly going to ignore their opinion then there's no reason they should listen to you anyways. What are you gonna do, ban them?

Cody's done a lot of work for the forum, without a shadow of a doubt. No one here is disputing that all. But are you really going to pretend the community doesn't deserve a voice in the matter? You seem like a cool guy, but if you're basically going to try to tell people to shut up and not voice their opinion on something they've help build, you're kidding yourself.

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Cody
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If anyone is questioning my lack of a response to this topic thus far: it is not me ignoring you. It is the opposite. I am listening. I am watching. I've read every single post here, many multiple times over. I will give a proper response when I have one prepared. I understand you're all passionate about this subject, and you won't be quieted on the matter. You are being heard.
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Kyoto
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Tom
Saturday, 14. September 2013, 00:10
@Chance: You're Staff Members on a forum whose death timer you've accelerated. Impressive.

Seriously. As of right now, you're really only just people with titles. The community's contributed more than you think to the forum. If you're blatantly going to ignore their opinion then there's no reason they should listen to you anyways. What are you gonna do, ban them?

Cody's done a lot of work for the forum, without a shadow of a doubt. No one here is disputing that all. But are you really going to pretend the community doesn't deserve a voice in the matter? You seem like a cool guy, but if you're basically going to try to tell people to shut up and not voice their opinion on something they've help build, you're kidding yourself.
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Bluezone777
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If you think throwing around threats is going to impress anyone well it won't. You might as well put out a fire with gasoline as it's pretty much the same thing. I for one have taken the time to think out all of my responses to this thread and would not have made them if I didn't think they were warranted. I don't have anything to lose as I don't have much of a connection with this place however I do know others do so I put my voice in the ring because I know I would want the same done for me if I was in their position.

I know some of us here speak from a varying level of experience in forum management. If you think I am speaking from ignorance then you are sorely mistaken. You might not like what I have to say but good advice often tastes bitter on those who need it most.
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Johnathon
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Cody
Saturday, 14. September 2013, 01:39
If anyone is questioning my lack of a response to this topic thus far: it is not me ignoring you. It is the opposite. I am listening. I am watching. I've read every single post here, many multiple times over. I will give a proper response when I have one prepared. I understand you're all passionate about this subject, and you won't be quieted on the matter. You are being heard.
At least I know you are paying attention Cody, and know this I will support Outline in any path it chooses, but as of now I'm kind of leaning toward to path BZ is laying out before us. I understand that the staff had discussed this thoroughly and thought threw every possible solution, but the point we are trying to get across more then any other point here is that the the community should of had some input in the situation. People are frustrated, including myself, we have spent so long enjoying the community that is Outline, its very hard to see it just whither away, I want to see a chance taken. Me and Joe talked the other night and had kind of a reminiscence of the people we have met here, the fun we had visiting this forum. Its hard to just let go. I hope you can at least understand where we are coming from, this was just sprung on us and a forum that had always considered the communities opinion, is doing the exact opposite. Stop being so stiff and become a tad bit flexible.
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Moonface
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Anyone else being sort of reminded of the April Fools prank? Right now this feels very similar, in that the community isn't keen that such a big thing was sprung upon them that affects them all just as much as those on the staff team. Granted the April Fools prank was an entirely different beast, but it had a similarity of the community being affected adversely and all the community can do is sit back and accept it without getting to have had any input on the matter.

Would I personally have liked to see a new leader found to continue where Cody will leave off? Sure. But at the same time I can understand Cody doesn't want to just pick any old person to do it, nor does everyone on staff necessarily want that much responsibility for each their own reasons.

If this wasn't such a sudden thing, and if it had happened at a later date in the future, would there have ever been the possibility someone would have been appointed as the next leader of this place? I'm curious as to whether Cody had intentions to hand the place over if someone suitable would turn up for the role. If it wasn't so sudden but Cody knew he would have to leave the place, would someone with potential be like, guided to get them ready for taking the place over? I'm just wondering what sort of strategy, if any, Cody would take on appointing another admin on this place if he had more time to do so.
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Whoa, this is pretty damn surprising to me. It's been real Outline.

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